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Design Study: B-Div Rollsigns of the 1970s

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One of my favorite things is to trace the subway's graphic design language through the colorful and vibrant late-1960s and 1970s during the Vignelli period. Colors were vibrant, designs were crisp, and changes were incredibly frequent. I think the best looking designs the system's ever had came during these years, and thanks to the great photo archive on nycsubway.org, we're able to look back on that period with total clarity. While there are many photos here, this is more of a discussion thread, so I've put it here in this section rather than the photos one.

 

The first design I want to focus on is what I'll call the "central-color" roll. These rolls accompanied the 1968 'color explosion' and were the first time color was ever used on a subway roll. Until then, lines were listed in white text on a black background only. But in 1968 that changed as the newly-arriving R40 cars brought these new rolls with them.

 

These cars actually predate the introduction of Akzidenz-Grotesk (Standard) into the system as brought by Vignelli, so the cars use the block font all-caps of some of the 1950s and 1960s signs with a colored square for the line in the center.

 

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Joe Testagrose collection

 

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Joe Testagrose collection

 

As you can see, the front of the cars used the same block font over a massive colored roll:

 

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Doug Grotjahn photo

 

That design was slowly altered, however, and R40Ms and R42s arrived with the center-color design using Akzidenz-Grotesk as the font, lower-case letters, and the first circular 'bullet' design of any cars.

 

This is the general design of these rolls (houseofmemories802 photo):

 

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At the front of the trains, the same colored roll was used, but now with smaller letters in Akzidenz-Grotesk:

 

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Joe Testagrose collection

 

The R44 fleet, which arrived slightly later, used an identical side roll. At the front, rather than a colored rectangle, was an enlarged version of that 'bullet' on the center of the side signs.

 

This is how that looked:

 

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Doug Grotjahn photo

 

Those rolls could also be used, rarely, on R40s/R42s:

 

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Doug Grotjahn photo

 

Keeping track of the year is important here, however. The R44s were built beginning in 1971, according to the design specs of the late 1960s years. By 1972, Massimo Vignelli and Bob Noorda had codified the design system for the subway, and they outlined the new rollsign design in their graphics manual. The bullet, using the same 1968 color scheme, would go on the left of the sign over a white background, while the destinations would be printed on the right-hand side. New IRT rolls were printed with a version of this (not many were made, however--see the R17 rollsign thread I started to see how those were used and then modified), and I believe a design was planned for R32-R38 B Div cars to follow this format. The immediate result was that R46s, arriving beginning in 1975, would follow this design:

 

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Here's that design in action--note that at the front is a colored bullet of today's general standard, for the first time:

 

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Doug Grotjahn photo

 

One eBay seller now lists these rare R46 rolls on his page. The prices are high, but very negotiable, and quite rare. Here is the design for the N line:

 

$_57.JPG

 

houseofmemories802 photo

 

That design, introduced with the R46s, would then spread to the rest of the R40, R40M, R42, and R44 fleet. Between the mid-1970s and 1979, new signs were printed for many of the cars following Vignelli's new standards.

 

In this photo, you can see an R42 set at left with the original rolls and an R40M set at right with the new, mid-1970s rolls with the new standards:

 

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Steve Zabel photo

 

At the front of the trains, new rolls were also being printed that followed the bullet design. Like the originals, these rolls (still using 1968 colors) scrolled vertically rather than horizontally:

 

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Steve Zabel photo

 

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David Pirmann collection

 

That new pairing of a circular, Akzidenz-Grotesk bullet with 1968 colors and the side roll with a white backing and left-justified bullets would be retrofitted onto cars right up until the 1979 transition to trunk line colors. Many cars kept the old rolls--including the out of date colors--well into the 1980s. For me, those designs are cleanest the subway ever saw. The late-1980s retrofits to the rollsigns were clunky Helvetica without the white backing that made the Vignelli signs so crisp and clear. Upon GOH, R40s and R42s lost the single-piece rolls--which were admittedly impractical, as they only had the colors and lines of a certain section of the system--for three-piece signs that last today. And by the early 1990s, a significant portion of the fleet--all R44s and R46s--had lost side rollsigns entirely. But those bullets live on, and Vignelli's design remains the best the subway has seen.


Detour Question

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Service Change  Posted: 09/23/2015  6:14PM
 

Q11, Q21, Q52 and Q53 buses are detoured and delayed due to a vehicular accident at Woodhaven Blvd and 80 Rd.

Detour is as follows:

BM5, Q11, Q21, Q52, Q53 and QM15 Northbound: Via Woodhaven Blvd, left on Myrtle Av, right on 80 St, right on Cooper Av, right on Metropolitan Av, left on Wood haven Blvd and regular route.

BM5, Q11, Q21, Q52, Q53 and QM15  Southbound: Expect delays.

Allow additional travel time.

 

 

Why do the buses travel all the way down to 80th and myrtle ave? They could of just turned right on 88th st, right on Cooper ave, right on Metro and left on woodhaven blvd.

Regenerate braking powers TFL Tube station

What if the Polo Grounds Shuttle/Culver Av Shuttle never closed and still survived today?

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What do you guys think the (MTA) would done if the Polo Grounds shuttle never closed and if the Culver Shuttle was never demolished?

Increasing the ADA-accessibilities to each ADA-accessible or potential ADA-accessible Subway Station

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As many of you NYC Transit Forums members know that today marks the 2-month, 25th year anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities (ADA) Act of 1990. 2 months ago, many disabled people in wheelchairs across the U.S.A. rejoiced as they all come together to celebrate the 25 years of ADA. On Thursday July 26th, 1990, Then-U.S. president George H.W. Bush signed a bill into law that would require all disabled people to get accommodations being made for them. Because of that, many of them were able to take public transportation like trains, subways, and buses (or Access-A-Ride) to get to their destinations, have easier access to and from their houses, and to have the people they can respect and rely on. Which brings all of us here to this very important blog right here.
 
We all know that some MTA New York City Subway Stations throughout the 5 boroughs are ADA-accessible; some stations have elevators, others have wheelchair ramps, but what if there is a possibility that we can increase the accessibility of each ADA-accessible subway stop or each potential ADA-accessible subway stop by featuring both the elevators and wheelchair ramps (or escalators that can accommodate disabled passengers with wheelchairs) in that particular subway stop simultaneously? 'Can it be done', you ask? It can be done, if we played the cards right, study everything we need to know on each subway station, and make it all work at the right price within the MTA's budget, it will become a reality. I'll be answering all of your questions and provide you with each specific details regarding on which subway station I'm working on getting increased ADA-accessibility.

MTA NYC Subway: Jamaica-bound R160 (F) Train at Parsons Blvd (6 Av Exp/63 St)

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Taken 9/19/15. Some weekend for the (F) Line.

Two Service Changes:

1.) Jamaica-bound trains ran express from Neptune Avenue to Smith-9th Streets.

2.) Jamaica-bound trains ran express from West 4th Street-Washington Square to 34th Street-Herald Square.

IND Sixth Avenue Line/Queens Blvd Line

Another TWU Ad

The MTA Needs to Explain and the Q35 Then and Now


(F) Train Shuttle Bus Action in Brooklyn

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We've all heard, seen, saw, and know of Railfan Window Views? Well, here is my first-ever Busfan Window View, on board the (F) Train Shuttle Bus to Church Avenue, New Flyer-Xcelsior ”XD40“ #7098 From the NYE Depot. All Brooklyn Division Bus Depot contributed to the (F) Train Shuttle Bus cause, since the (F) Train was out of commission between Church Avenue, Kensington and Stillwell Avenue, Coney Island, Brooklyn.

"WEST Farms Sq - EAST Tremont Av"

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I was thinking about this station and started wondering...

 

Is there any other train station, anywhere, whose name includes both "West" and "East" (or both "North" and "South")?

Exclusive!: B Train via Broadway Express/Whitehall

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Taken 9/21/15. This is two video segments taken and put together as one. Due to rail conditions at 72nd and 125th Sts, (A) & (D) trains ran local between Manhattan and (the Bronx)(for the (D) line). They were no (B) trains between DeKalb Av and Bedford Park Blvd. (B) Trains ran via Whitehall/Broadway Express Line.

-Trains ran via the ® Line from DeKalb Av to Whitehall St, terminated, and went back to Brooklyn, no service.

- Trains ran via the ® Line from DeKalb Av to Canal St, and then via the (Q) Express line to Midtown-57th St/7th Av, and terminated.

-R68 (B) Train at Whitehall St and 14th St-Union Square.

-THE (B) LINE WAS RATED THE WORST SUBWAY LINE, BY THE STRAPHANGERS CAMPAING. THE (B) IS NOT THE WORST SUBWAY LINE. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE TOP TEN BECAUSE ITS CLEAN, YOU HAVE SEAT AVAILABLITY, CLEAR ANNOUNCEMENTS, AND ITS ALWAYS ON TIME. THE STRAPHANGERS CAMPAING ARE STUPID AND RETARDED FOR VIOLATING A LINE THAT IS OPERATING WITH NO TROUBLE!!! Wait for my commentary at the end of 2015/start of 2016.

Fare prepayment? (To speed up boarding - not SBS)

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At certain busy stops, bus stops can suffer from long dwell times, or there are many routes that converge at a major hub area (i.e., near Flushing-Main Street, downtown Brooklyn, and Jamaica, Queens). What I am proposing here is to have payment machines outside where one must pay before boarding, but then dip in the ticket into the farebox. The idea is that this will make trips faster and improve boarding at chokepoints.

 

Your thoughts?

MTA buses testing new safety technology

NYC subway riders rate the rails on Yelp; Q is best, while C and R are most reviled

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By REBECCA HARSHBARGER, FELIPE DE LA HOZ, and CRISTIAN SALAZAR

September 30, 2015    

The Q line makes subway riders gush online, while the C and R trains are the most reviled by commuters, according to an analysis of Yelp reviews.

Almost 1,600 straphangers have used the site as their soapbox -- not to leave snarky reviews of restaurants or coffee shops, but to dish on the ups and downs of commutes.

Across the subway system, riders chided their lines, penned love letters, and even anthropomorphized their trains by addressing them on Yelp. Some posted haikus, while others penned five-stanza poems.

The No. 7 wasn't deemed the best or the worst in the subway system, but the elevated Queens line sparked 197 reviews-- more than any other service.

Other trains had just a flicker of online presence. Despite decent Wi-Fi on the No. 2 train, its riders only left 29 reviews and No. 3 train riders just posted nine.

Both the Q and No. 2 were rated 3.5 out of 5 stars, but the Q had more than double the number of reviews.

Although commuters griped about incessant "train traffic" delays the Q always seems to be battling, the express line generated some of the most fawning reviews.

"Fast, reliable, clean. With a bit of magic," wrote a Yelp reviewer who identified himself as Matteo R. "The Q train, a.k.a. Broadway express, bailed me out several times when I had to go back to Brooklyn from Manhattan late at night. The cars are bright, clean, and ... what is that? An announcement that you can hear AND understand?!"

Transit watchdogs weren't surprised the line did well on Yelp. "The Q has the newest cars, and is express running through Manhattan," said Andrew Albert of the Transit Riders Council. "What's not to like?"

Some riders feel so loyal to their subway lines, they admitted feeling guilty when they see other trains.

"I feel like I'm cheating on the D train every time I catch you on the transfer at Atlantic Avenue," confessed Miguel D to the N train. "But damn it, you do the job and you do it well."

Other subway lines' Yelp pages were a source of free therapy for downtrodden commuters who griped about ancient subway cars, long platform waits and excessive doorblocking.

Fed-up commuters gave the C and R trains a paltry two stars.

"Of course they're uncomfortable, creaky, loud, and dirty; they were built a year after President Kennedy was assassinated!" wrote one C train rider, who identified himself as National H. "When they were built Yogi Berra managed the Yankees, and Whitey Ford was pitching. It was Shea Stadium's first season. The World's Fair was in Queens."

The C line's subway cars date back to 1964.

"Of course people turn to Yelp to complain about the C train," said Wil Fisher, a 23-year-old member of the Riders Alliance, who lives off of the Franklin Avenue stop. "We haven't had any meaningful response from the MTA about the infrequent, unreliable service and riders are desperate to voice their concerns to anyone who will listen. For me, if I have time, I will often walk to other lines to avoid overheating underground as I wait for a C train that is infrequent and more often than not, delayed."

The R train was also wildly disparaged online.

"Ive spent countless hours stuck in the tunnels, or forced to quick-search for alternate paths from somewhere the R train just decides to die on us," sniffed Yelp user Gully F.

"I feel like the MTA should be paying ME to ride that thing."

Unsurprisingly, the L train also inspired 190 reviews with Brooklynites trashing the sardine-can trains during rush-hour but raving about the cars' cleanliness.

"Endlessly irritating. Reasonably punctual," said a poem by Yelp user Nate B. "Ceaselessly amusing. Typically running, unless it's not."

 

Source: http://www.amny.com/transit/nyc-subway-riders-rate-the-rails-on-yelp-c-and-r-are-most-reviled-1.10909789

 

You can also click on the link to see the ratings on each subway line (excluding the shuttles and Z train)

(7) Suspended

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Suspended Posted: 10/01/2015 6:46PM

Due to signal problems along the line, (7) service has been suspended between 34 St-Hudson Yds and Flushing-Main St in both directions.

Take the (E) (F) (M) and ® trains instead.

LIRR will cross honor at the following stations:

34 St-Penn Station, Hunters Point Av, 61 St-Woodside, Flushing-Main St, Kew Gardens-Union Tpke, and Jamaica Center-Parsons/Archer.

The last stop for alternate (6) trains, 3Av-138th

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Days, 10:30 AM to 3 PM, Wed to Fri, until Oct 2

 

 

This service change has been happening on the  (6) line for so long that I can't even tell you when it began. Maybe early Spring? And I recall it happening last Summer too, but not as often as this year. It's always TWO WEEKS of the change, ONE WEEK off. Non-stop.

 

It stopped for the last two weeks, now they are doing it EVERY WEEK for another month. They always put a "date range" or "until" date, but it's never actually the end of it. It seems there is no end in sight with this service change. It's frustrating when I'm out and about and trying to get back home, even when it's WELL AFTER 3:00PM, and I have to wait along with a ton of other people on a crowded platform for a actual train that will take me somewhere.

 

What I don't get is that I never see any construction happening that would require them running alternate trains terminating at 3Av-138th. I've tried reaching out to the MTA regarding this and why it's been a never ending service change. All I want to know is what construction is occurring that needs this service change happening for so long.

 

Just wondering if anybody has any information here about what's been going on?

Rapid Transit (1949) Video (I wish the subway system was really Rapid Transit)

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This is a great video, showing how the subway should be.

Based off the video, the system looks a lot better operated with competant, thinking, breathing, humans, instead of computers. Just look at the employees who close the car doors making sure all the passengers are in. We need more employees not less. Lets put people back to work.

3698......

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.....is in the side of a house on Guy R. Brewer and S. Conduit......

Several injured after MTA bus crashes Queens home

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MTA%20BUS_zps3d0g0otn.jpg

[Photo credit: © newyorkkid87 on Instagram]

Jamaica, Queens — Several people were injured after an (MTA) bus crashed into a Queens home Saturday night. The crash happened at 177-45 Meadow Road in Jamaica around 9:30 p.m. A photo from the scene shows where the (MTA) bus barreled into the home. There are also two cars with significant damage seen near the bus.

Fire officials tell PIX11 at least five people were injured. There were no transports to the hospital. A woman inside of the home tells PIX11 no one in the home was hurt. She also said the bus was full of people at the time of the crash. It’s unknown what caused the crash or the extent of the damage to the building.

THIS IS A DEVELOPING STORY, CHECK BACK FOR UPDATES.

 

Source: http://pix11.com/2015/10/03/several-injured-after-mta-bus-crashes-queens-home/

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Not sure if that bus was the Q111 or Q114 LTD. S. Conduit Av & Guy R. Brewer is where the accident happen.

AMNY: The Secrets of Grand Central

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